Dwayne Walker of Playmates Who Love the Lord: Interview

Dwayne Walker appeared, ruggedly handsome in a silk kimona, talking heatedly on a cell phone. From the bits of conversation I could hear I gathered he was talking to Sharon Stone, but he denied this.

Miss Poppy:
Mr. Walker, after reviewing your films BIBLE MADNESS and RAPTURE DREAMS I thought I detected the influence of Russ Meyers and John Waters. Who has inspired you?

Mr. Walker:
Please, call me Dwayne. Funny you should ask. I actually called Russ Meyers to get him to play the youth director in SPRING BREAK MISSIONARIES. He answered the phone personally! Said he didn't do any acting, and what he did in the Joe Dante movie was because Joe Dante was a friend of his. When I mentioned I wanted him to play a church youth director he replied, "I don't want to play a bad guy!"

John Waters is probably more of an influence than Russ Meyers. His advice is to stay where you are, don't move to Hollywood, make movies in your hometown. This was advice I could have taken today. However, the 70s camcorders were not like the machines of today. And I'm kind of glad I made the move to California anyway, if only to be in a more liberal environment. That is quickly passing, though. I'm totally amazed that smoking will be illegal in bars on January 1 of next year. Bars and smoking go together! I'm not even a smoker and I realize this.

A better influence is Ron Ormond. Did you ever see those BURNING HELL movies he made? He started out as an exploitational moviemaker. He gave Ed Wood music for JAILBAIT. Anyway, Ormond was in an airplane crash. The whole family got saved and started making independent Baptist movies. But his style never changed! Exploitation to the max! Worms stuffed in people's mouths to illustrate 'the worm dieth not'.

Christian films have better production values today, and that's a shame. I loved the fact that the producers of the Ormond films were church people who didn't go to movies and wanted their films to be a 'ministry of their church.' In short, only Christians, and not just any Christians - but Bible thumping independent Baptists - could be in their movies. There was a charm about those movies that's lost in today's high tech Christian Hollywood.

Miss Poppy:
Watching Bible Madness I had the feeling that you held a very tenuous grip on the reigns of irony? Was this a problem for you?

Mr. Walker:
BIBLE MADNESS was originally conceived as ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS. I was making a serious film about American fundamentalism. However, in the transition from screenplay to dramatic movie, many changes occurred. For one thing, lines that I uttered so effortlessly in my fundie days were heightened and given new meaning when read by actors. I tried to bring them down. By having the actors talk in normal tones about unrelated matters, then saying the lines in normal tones. It still came out offbeat.

I realized what we had was a cross between Ed Wood and Ingmar Bergman. Knowing people wouldn't accept this as a serious movie made me consider a title change to reflect the unintentional comedy that resulted from Dallas Munroe's performance. Hence the title, BIBLE MADNESS!

BIBLE MADNESS was not developed with any sense of irony in mind. I was trying to be as realistic as possible. Anything that seemed contrived was immediately thrown out. At first, I was worried about Dallas's performance. Then one night, watching Bob Larson on TBN, I realized Dallas was mild in comparison. So I let his performance stand.

Miss Poppy:
Were you trying to work something out in BIBLE MADNESS?

Mr. Walker:
Not really. I was really trying to work something out with RAPTURE DREAMS. In that movie, I was expressing the ambivalence I felt toward my Christian friends and fundamentalism in general. On one hand, I wanted out! Not only that, I wanted them out! However, because fundamentalism, and fundamentalist friends, were such a part of my life, I felt I would be amputating part of my soul if I cut all ties from my religious past.

BIBLE MADNESS reflects a maturity of growth. I'm not really working something out as much as I'm commemorating an event. Very similar to Old Testament heros who built altars to God after an important battle. They weren't trying to work anything out. The battle was already won. They just wanted a commemoration of the event./P>

With BIBLE MADNESS, the battle had been won. It wasn't easy and sometimes it brought me to the brink of despair. But two years ago when I conceived BIBLE MADNESS, I came to the conclusion that fundamentalism had no hold over me. California had a lot to do with that and so did returning to my home state of Florida and realizing the hold was gone. BIBLE MADNESS is an altar, not an altar to the Lord but an altar commemorating my newly discovered self-worth.

Miss Poppy:
You are the Media Director for Atheists United. Is there a connection between atheism and fundamentalism?

Mr. Walker:
Atheists and Fundamentalists seek honesty in their dealings with people. Both dislike the middle ground that tries to be everything to everyone. Fundamentalists hate it when evangelical Christians say, "I believe the Bible, but I'm not a fundamentalist." Atheists hate it when people say, "I don't believe in a god, but I don't call myself an Atheist. I'm a Secular Humanist, Freethinker, etc."

There's a part of me drawn to extremism. These are people not afraid to commit to an ideal. Of course, the evangelical Christians and Secular Humanists of the world would probably say, "If you want to see committed people, visit a mental hospital!"

Miss Poppy:
Have you experienced any residual effects from having been a fundamentalist?

Mr. Walker:
There were times in college when I stopped dead in my tracks and wondered, "What if it's true? What if there really is a Hell to shun? Are the people around me going to Hell because of my silence?"

It would vanish after a few seconds because I quickly realized that not only did every religion condemn me to Hell, but so did other Christian denominations. At the time I had a friend attending the Sunrise Church of Christ in Tampa. He believed I was going to Hell because I hadn't been baptized the proper way in his church.

I'll never forget the condescending way he witnessed to me. "Dwayne, you seem like a smart guy. I know you study the Bible and want to do the right thing. But you DO agree there's only one way to Heaven?"

This was an eye-opener for me because I finally understood what other people must have felt when I witnessed to them as an independent Baptist.

Miss Poppy:
Have any characteristics that you developed in fundamentalism helped you in your secular life?

Mr. Walker:
Only one. Motivation doesn't count, it's what you physically do that's important. Of course, they would disagree with me on that. "We didn't teach that!"

Our pastor, Dr. Bob Gray from Trinity Baptist Church pulled that church from the Southern Baptist Convention and built an extremely successful ministry. When other fundies criticized his efforts saying, "You're building this ministry 'in the flesh' and not in the 'spirit of God,'" he replied, "There's a time to pray and a time to work. It's time to GET IN THE FLESH! GET IN THE FLESH! GET IN THE FLESH!"

Today, the criticism is "You're going for the lowest common denominator." I'm accused of using groups like the Atheists and the Humanists to further my interests. But I don't let it worry me. GET IN THE FLESH! GET IN THE FLESH! GET IN THE FLESH!

Miss Poppy:
Have you maintained a relationship with the Christian right?

Mr. Walker:
I worked with David Balsiger on ANCIENT SECRETS OF THE BIBLE, PART 2. It aired on CBS TV. After the Noah's Ark scandal when George Jammal appeared on a Balsiger program and said he had been there when he hadn't, Balsiger lost his contract with CBS. Fortunately, his associates kept the rights and today you can see my face in a Christian bookstore near you. Check out ANCIENT SECRETS OF THE BIBLE - COLLECTORS SERIES from GROUP PRODUCTIONS. I'm in the Samson and Delilah segment.

Just recently I met with Jack Chick. I was a consultant advising him on an upcoming video project. I'm not sure what he's going to call it. I think it's a video version of KING OF KINGS with stills from his animation cells illustrating the gospel. Unfortunately, he opted to go with Jeremiah Films.

It was my privilege to observe HOT animation cells of Eve that have never graced any of his comics. They'll probably wind up on the cutting room floor now that Jeremiah has the contract. If he'd have gone with me, you would have seen everything in tingling color . . . if you know what I mean!

Miss Poppy:
What do you think attracts people to literalist interpretations?

Mr. Walker:
For the followers: family roots. I think the main reason people don't want to doubt is because they're afraid to kick grandpa and grandma in the teeth and no one wants to do that.

For the leaders: control and commerce. There are more ways to control a person than just oppressive rules about sex. If you hold their souls in your hands that's a powerful tool. However, if the leaders reach the point where they don't believe anymore, what are they to do? There's no real money in Atheism. Go to another religion? So, to keep the cash flow coming, I'm sure we have preachers who might not believe, but keep going to get food on the table. "I believe, help thou my unbelief."

There is a macho factor as well. I once believed it was wimping out to accept a symbollic interpretation of the Bible. Today I realize a symbollic interpretation actually gives some stories more power. The camel going through the eye of the needle, for instance. I used to take this literally. When it was explained the 'eye in the needle' was a hole merchants took their camals through (and in order to fit the camel into 'the eye' they had to REMOVE ALL THEIR POSSESSIONS from the camel), I realized that story had more meaning symbolically than literally.

There are many passages in the Bible that have more meaning symbolically than literally. Unlike many of my contemporary Atheists, I don't trash the whole book. Though there is some trash in the Bible. I like what you said, "It's all cut and paste!" Very Jeffersonian of you.

Miss Poppy:
Why can't the Humanists, Atheists, and the Hollywood get their facts straight about the Religious Right?

Mr. Walker:
This bothers me to no end. I just read an "exposé" of the Promise Keepers in THE HUMANIST. At first I was about to yawn and say, "Golly! A bunch of white guys in a stadium! They MUST be Republicans. What an exposé!" The article talked about how they could be mobilized into militias to overthrow the country. After that, I wanted to overthrow THE HUMANIST!

The greatest threat of the Promise Keepers and the Religious Right is they make us comfortable with our prejudices, thereby affecting the political system, thereby throwing us in a neo-fascist world kind of like the 50s, only worse. But it's a MENTAL battle. Men convincing women it's in their best interest to get back home, have babies, and give up their careers. To quote the Bible out of context: "We wrestle not against flesh and blood. But against principalities. Against the rulers of darkness of this age, against spiritual wickedness in high places," etc.

When these magazines and TV Programs start equating the stockpiling of weapons and militias with evangelical groups, what happens? People who are members of the Christian right read the exposés, look around them, and say, "No one in my group is like that! Obviously, THE HUMANIST doesn't know anything about us."

That's not to say that certain individuals in the Promise Keepers aren't in militias, but activists have to be careful about getting their facts straight. Borderline people who might oppose the religious right won't oppose them if they detect lies or hyperbole from our side.

Miss Poppy:
What do you envision for your work in the future?

Mr. Walker
The future? Let me see, I'd like to get people out of their houses and into the porno theaters where they belong! Yeah . . . that's it! I want to bring back porno chic . . . maybe, dare I say, a religious themed porno movie?!

Not so far fetched. Tried it before with a really bad bondage movie called THE BAPTIST BRIDLE starring Trinity Loren. Based on stories from Lester Roloff's home for girls. Horrible stuff. I can't tie a person up to save my life. Next time, I'm gonna hire real professionals! I don't even want you TO SEE this movie because it's so bad.

My goal of an adult oriented look at the Bible and religion in America was (and is) discouraged by people in the X-rated industry. One minute they tell you their audience is the most highly educated audience around. The next minute they tell you it can't be done because some of their best customers ARE religious people who'd have a fit if they saw anything blasphemous on the screen. The folks in today's porno business are such wimps. But, let's face it, how best to tell the story of Onan? And RAPTURE DREAMS could certainly be reworked as an adult movie!

I'm currently working on a novel that brings together my experiences in Fundamentalism and Atheism. Tried to write non-fiction in SPRING BREAK MISSIONARIES, but couldn't tell the truth because so many wanted to hide their identities. The only real truth can be found in fiction for that very reason.

Am developing a calandar for 1999 entitled APOCALYPSE WOMEN: A FEMALE REVELATION. George Metivier, a photographer whose work regularly appears in GIRLFRIENDS magazine, is helping me with that. And, what else?

My real goal is to be the Ron Ormond of the Atheist world! I believe that is God's will for my life.